Posts
From: Dom Borax
To: Stacey Marchenkova
Sent: Saturday, May 22nd, 1999 6:27 AM
Subject: RE RE So sorry
Stacey, what a harsh email.
I’m not quite sure how to respond. I feel kinda betrayed. I mean not betrayed in a Gangster or Tudor King battle-for- the-Crown kinda way.
I just feel hurt.
I feel raw.
I feel unprotected.
I feel the world got a little darker.
I feel like a child.
I feel I want to be looked after.
And I know I should look after myself. I know that.
I know that when it all comes down to it, we only have ourselves.
I know I’m an adult.
But sometime don’t you want someone to hold your hand?
Someone to check your temperature.
Someone to ring you on your birthday.
Someone to buy you a book.
Someone to write a dated personal inscription in that book.
Someone to share a piece of toast with.
Someone to gently correct the song lyric when you sing it incorrectly. (I’m talking about Warren Zevon’s Werewolves of London which I thought was Werewolves Abundant for a good three months)
Someone who won’t ever wear a matching track suit with you.
Someone who will read the Saturday papers with you.
Someone who will steal your pillow.
Someone that will cut off the fat before making you a bacon sandwich.
Someone who will laugh at your jokes even when they’ve heard them before?
Someone who’ll not laugh at you even when you’re foolish again.
Someone to say the odd there-there
Someone that will cut off the fat before making you a bacon sandwich. (I said that already, didn’t I? I think I really want a bacon sandwich.)
Someone who’ll tell you ‘actually it is a bad haircut.’
Someone who’ll tell you ‘actually that colour doesn’t suit you.’
Some who’ll tell you ‘actually leather doesn’t suit you.’
Someone who’ll tell you ‘though I support the idea of complete corduroy outfit, I think when it comes to the waistcoat you should reconsider.’
Someone who has enough regard to lie to you?
Someone who’s willing to leave out some of the details.
Dom
His reply almost makes me go to Team Stacey. He's still rejecting any accountability that he put upon himself by getting so drunk and not "making his move" before Marcus could. He makes no effort to build the bridge, doesn't apologise for spilling his drink over her and tells her things he should have done sooner if he was serious about a relationship with her.
ReplyDeleteSurely its too little too late, his email reeks of a last ditch attempt to undermine the Stacey/Marcus relationship. Yet he doesnt offer her anything she couldn't have with Marcus, its all a one-way street of what he wants.
I will cut off the fat before making you a bacon sandwich, Dom. I feel for you buddy, I really do. Stacey is a bitch, but I here her moms got it going on... so look into that lol.
ReplyDeleteHello All, I know I've asked before, but could I trouble you with a minor request. If you are a member of the bored olives facebook page. Could I humbly ask you share it with your friends.
ReplyDeleteThere's a 'suggest to friends' option just below the ID photo for the page. If you click on it you have the option of passing the page onto your facebook conenctions. You can either select 'all' or manually go through and select who you think might like this site.
I hope this isn't an annoying request and together we can hopefully take this generous and honest forum to a wider audience.
Thank you and have a lovely day.
Stephen
Anon 9:56am, i totally agree with that.. He still hasn't acknowledged his own accountability for the way certain things have occurred. And what actually agitates me about this email is that he is trying to trivialise things, like in this email where he's coming off all cutesy.. I dunno.. Its just a bit off for my palette.
ReplyDelete..I have a feeling this may piss Stacey off even more.
On the contrary "someone who's willing to leave out some of the details.." is a nice line.. I do like it. Mostly because it's quite a bit tactful - he could just be trying to be cute.. OR maybe he's suggesting the apology that maybe he would have said if they weren't both so wrong. Perhaps even suggesting that he wants them both to get over this event.
Hard to say. This email makes me think of a really pink fluffy bear being given to Stacey all innocently, but then i have this second visualisation where she tears the bear to shreds and throws it Dom.
I hope that is not the case, but it would be a soft call if Stacey accepts this as an apology.. or maybe that's why you'd call it l.... -im afraid to say it. :)
I can’t – for the life of me – understand what anyone thinks Dom needs to apologise for! For not wanting to consummate the relationship soon enough? For not “marking his territory”? For not making his manful claim on Stacey? What century are we living in?
ReplyDeleteShe was the one who wanted to take things slowly. She was the one who wanted to be careful. She was the one hopped into bed with a total stranger hours after meeting him. She was the one who insisted on relating the intimate details of the night she spent with Dom’s friend – and for what? Because he spilt a drink on her? Because he spent a nice evening with her and felt like he probably nudged the blossoming relationship a little more in the right direction, without forcing the issue of sex?
Wow!
Chris Dixon, you sir just read my mind.
ReplyDelete@chris - Thank you!
ReplyDeleteWhy should D apologise?? As Mr Dixon above has fully argued, that man was just taking some time to savor a relationship in his own flawed way. How was he to know S had ants in her pants and wanted to "fuck" while listening to emo-ish songs?
This email was not cute-sy for me... I rather enjoyed the path he took us along... how some truths should be part of a relationship and some just shouldn't.
Nobody wants to be the only one looking after themselves. I know I don't, even though I'm a grown up and I know I should... And I think this forum will understand what I mean here
This mail really does seem truly sad to me, especially the stupid "im-ok-enough-to-joke-about-it" lines that he throws in.
How my heart would break if someone wrote this to me... not that i would do the whole ants-in-pants thing ... just saying...
Ok I can't believe that he is even speaking to her after that last one. As I have said since this all happened, Stacey is the one who did something wrong. If I ever implied that Dom needed to apologize, I'm sorry, he doesn't.
ReplyDeleteI need him to stop being so nice to the woman who did this to him. I need her to stop being such a commitment-phobe. I need this to get better...
Chris, thankyou. Right on.
ReplyDeleteThis might actually be my favourite so far from Dom (other than the buy cds one, can't decide if it still wins or not). She doesn't deserve this level of gentleness and dignity, but I think he perfectly summed it up without letting her off the hook. Calling her on the nastiness but without spitting it in her face. Nice move. And of course he had to rrespond, she's got him hooked and so he can't walk away yet.
They BOTH really, really irritate me - but I keep coming back for the next instalment! Somehow they each have some redeeming qualities...
ReplyDeleteErin, I do too. I think it's because it feels real to me. I love their flaws. They're so obvious and human.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's also because this was intended as a private exchange and we all have the luxury of viewing it from a distance. I am certain they would write differently if they new there was an audience.
Anon (9:56) I wonder if Marcus would write like this? I wonder if he would offer a list of his wants. I wonder if he would liked to be looked after.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I haven't sided with one or the other yet.
Anon (9:58) Wow, Dom and Stacey's Mother? That stings. :)
ReplyDeleteHiranga, I'm a sucker for pink fluffy bear. Oh no has Papa Bear turned pink and fluffy!? Nooooooo!!!!
ReplyDeleteChris, each time you comment I love you more and I adore how you took the words from Anon (12:56).
ReplyDeleteMaybe Team Chris is emerging?
Ipshi; your statement of:
ReplyDelete"Nobody wants to be the only one looking after themselves. I know I don't, even though I'm a grown up and I know I should..."
really touched me. Had a little lip quiver. Thank you.
Steph - I adore your fight. I really do.
ReplyDeleteJo you are so right. She does have him hooked and he has to respond.
ReplyDeleteAnd I reckon he has her hooked too.
Though I'm worried how she'll respond.
Just had a thought, Steph. If it all goes down I so want you on my team.
ReplyDeleteAnd Dux, not sure if you caught last post response - but you are missed. Hope you're okay.
ReplyDeleteugh.. i dunno. I've read this now 3 times and ..even after the 3rd i still want to slap Dom.. with a fresh atlantic salmon. lol..
ReplyDeleteAlso, in my previous comment mentioning an apology, im not saying she deserves the apology, and im not saying that he should, but him silencing/deflecting almost denying that he spilled juice over her in public, i think, is going to piss her off even more particularly with the rest of this email written the way it is..
Secondly, if they were in a relationship, and Dom exhibited this sort of behaviour in public do you think Stacey would tolerate it, and accept him kissing up to her afterwards without even acknowledging that that happened ?? He doesn't have to apologise. But.. almost deleting it from history is a little second rate fore my liking.. We'll know for sure how she took it all in the next email i guess..
And if this is not cutesy i honestly don't know what is!!
And where is Lance !?? He's gonna be spewing with me when he reads all this!
PS. ill make sure i fax you a big fluffy one papa bear :P
It's interesting to see the apparent dominance that Stacy has achieved in this situation. It seems to me throughout this dialogue that she realises she can keep Dom submissive by keeping their relationship at arms length - (possibly made attainable by Dom's slow approaches).
ReplyDeleteIt sends a message that he's unworthy of her in comparison with other real men who can sweep her off her feet... yet he's kept in orbit with the hope that maybe if he keeps being her quasi-boyfriend he might eventually be the real thing one day.
Maybe if Dom is afraid that if he asserts his masculinity (?!) she won't tolerate him. So instead he's taken on the role and function of a lapdog.
Still I don't have much sympathy for him, if he really toddles off when he's drunk, perhaps he wasn't really that interested in Stacy to begin with... Perhaps Stacy wanted to punish Dom for not being a proper lapdog in this instance.
Yet I think it will take a lot for these two to leave each other's orbits.
Dom needs Stacy passively and wants a relationship with her. That much is clear. It's equally clear that Stacy knew that Dom wanted that to, and I think even the most unexplainable or seemingly hurtful circumstances (within reason) deserve some degree of tolerance (I refer to Dom's departure which was his fault) (...keep in mind that this rant is based on what they wrote - there was probably a lot more going on. But as it appears Dom was neglectful and Stacy was spiteful) And as Stacy didn't want to cut Dom completely out of her life even after the incident, I think she also wants him around.
(Cont)
As long as the relationship remains in a vague or 'unofficial' state of affairs (and the longer it takes the harder it will be to change) Stacy has the emotional support, social benefits, etc of a relationship, without the commitment. It's surprising how far the term 'friendship' can stretch before becoming a bonafide relationship. Dom's ambiguity is a flaw in this way. (Also it's surprising how little actual friendship has to do with relationships sometimes (aka Marcus)).
ReplyDeleteI recall an earlier email where Stacy described herself as genuinely wanting to punch Dom when they were 'pretending' they were married and he'd had an affair. I doubt she would tolerate this in reality...
Dom seems determined to court her in a 'gentlemanly fashion,' and to tolerate Stacy no matter what the cost (possibly at the expense of his dignity). This approach pretty much gives all the power in the relationship to Stacy, yet if he stopped wouldn't it mean it was all a facade - that he's not a gentleman, that he is in fact horribly insincere? Just another testosterone-driven thoughtless male. (afterthought: like marcus???)
Stacy though seems a tad unstable and reserves her right to change her aesthetics and philosophical ideals at a moments notice to suit herself. Justifications come later. Yet her handling of this relationship is entirely logical:
If a car dealership is giving out free donuts, as long as one looks like one could be considering buying a car, one can still capitalise on this fact. Obviously the donuts are Dom's attention/affection and he ran out of them when he was drunk. With expectable consequences.
Then again I'm completely open to being proved wrong. Yet for Stacy I think Dom's overall approach is wrong: as such he has himself in a deplorable position (again his own fault mind you), and I doubt they will make a good match.
How they handle this will be very interesting. Dom really needs to (gradually) assert himself more (also being more perceptive of Stacy when drunk would help) and balance out the equation. That said, maybe his above email was right for the situation so far...
Anyway, this analysis was more for my own amusement than anything else. Don't take me too seriously. To quote someone mildly famous: it's probably "about the ghost of a man who never lived, or about something that never will happen, or something else that is not."
Okies for now.
this is a really good exploration Feathertop! a lot to ponder about here..
ReplyDeleteSome comments indicate that Stacey hasn't done anything wrong, here. That in fact Dom shouldn't have drank so much and gone home, but instead had simmered down his intake and made his move.
ReplyDeleteNo. Stacey is in the wrong, she knew full well what sort of person Dom was, the sort of person who doesn't rush things and do the whole 'one night stand' thing. But Stacey expected it, it makes me believe she isn't nearly as intelligent and as understanding as she made us believe.
I don't know what else to type here, I am genuinely upset with Stacey, she completely disregarded Dom in her moment of idiocy with Marcus. She didn't, not for a second, think about Dom. She was being incredibly selfish.
Tragic. Stacey is evidently commitment-phobic. Dom offered her a glimpse of love for who she is under the cloak of romance. And it frightened her, so she self-destructively took from Marcus the opportunity of "intimacy" under the cloak of lust. Marcus put the Marcus show on, along with select soundtrack and it was all so exciting, especially as Stacey was not only fucking Marcus but fucking her intimate gentle self to hell. An exhilarating senses of being live at the expense of her blossoming soul. It's tragic because Dom is putting on the "I love you for who you really are" under the cloak of "I'm a flawless angel" schtick. So Stacey is right to run. "I who am nothing and who has no dignity" will love you for who you are. Sort of lose lose for Stacey, so what the hell, may as well fuck. I look out the window and I know it's going to rain. Fuck it. Fuck it all. Good bye olives.
ReplyDeleteI think many of you are missing a pretty important point. Dom spilt the drink because she told him she 'effed his best friend.. How do you all think you would all react to hearing that news?
ReplyDeleteStacy is almost demanding an apology for it. It's like she's blaming Dom for what happened between her and Marcus. It's very childish in my eyes.
At least Dom had some tact when replying to her crude e-mail.
- PennyPup
P.S. Thank-you for liking my name. I also suggested your blog to all my friends on Facebook.
"Olives"... it feels really nice and warm to belong to a group of people so diverse and interesting such as this group... :)
ReplyDelete@pink papa bear thanks for your sweet words as ever! and thanks ever more for understanding where I was coming for... not having to explain myself is such a rare concept for me (im not pretending to b really smart... just that others around me aren't very... well.. smart)
@hiranga - u confuse me... earlier on many occasions u have written truly CUTE things urself. Now D's attempt at trying to find a semblance of a relationship when he's been hurt beyond belief is cute-sy? Am I wrong in thinking that the tone of this mail is not to your liking? As far as I can see far from deleting the episode from history... both of them have been truly hurt by this act and are just hitting out in passive aggressive ways
@feather - what a beautiful comment and I'm sorry that I'm taking it so seriously but when you use a quote like that "about the ghost of a man who never lived, or about something that never will happen, or something else that is not." ... how can I not?
ReplyDeleteYou have given me a lot to think about too... and you've made me think about (very openly) about what would happen IF D&S do finally stop hurting each other and truly begin to revolve around each other... god.. its like such an Ibsen play...
Hiya Ipshi! yeah i can understand your confusion.. and i had already figured that some people would be thinking im folding back in on myself, given my history of previous comments, but really i don't mind what anyone thinks. There is a difference though, between being romantic and then this email.. I can't quite explain it myself, but perhaps it is purely the context in which Dom writes it - and to me the email sort of feels very contrived.. I feel like it's pushing it.. and yeah you are very right that they're both hitting up on the passive aggressive - totally! You probably don't agree with me here, and again it doesnt matter, but i think its in the interpretation of the context - that it is one thing to be a romantic and another to be a suck up..
ReplyDeleteSure, if you were a girl, and some guy emailed you this you would be completely woo'd in, and ahhhh "its so adorable"! Who doesn't want someone to cut the fat off their bacon in the mornings? Who doesn't want someone that moves the hair out of their pretty eyes when they are a a real big mess? But then who doesn't want to have been single, end up having (seemingly passionate) sex with "some guy" and wake up to realise that he/she is ACTUALLY caring enough to make you tea in the morning? - to realise that perhaps, fucking this almost complete stranger wasn't something that you would end up regretting?
There is a huuuge difference between Dom and Marcus. As far as i can see, Dom keeps telling her how much he cares. And Marcus just went straight ahead, and showed her that he cared. And by the sounds of it, i think he did a damn good job of it because i can't see Stacey having regrets about this night, besides perhaps the fact that she slept with the friend of this really adorable guy she has been intimately corresponding with via email..
I hate it. i hate having to say it - it is really fucked up for Dom!
But now what happens if you were a girl, this guy slapped you in the face for fucking his friend, in public, and then he sends this exact email?
It's a whole different story! Completely different! And this email Dom has just sent (i dunno about everyone else here, but to me) just feels really manipulative.. and i really don't like it. Anyway each to his/her own i guess..
I'm still a romantic.. I just wouldn't write something like this to a girl at a time like this.. Maybe it is my pride and dignity.. Depending on how this next bit unfolds perhaps there will be something for i can learn from Dom. Maybe :)
I would rather make tea the morning after and bring it to you after sex, than try to convince you that i would (along with many other things) in an email any day.
I dunno, I think Dom's reply started as a 'flow of consciousness', just stuff he was thinking and feeling, and those last 2 lines just summed it up for him, the way he was really feeling. It's almost like he was working his way through all his thoughts to what was really bothering him, that Stacy didn't respect him enough to keep the sordid details to herself and lie just a little, because that's what you do for friends sometimes.
ReplyDeleteI think both these people (I go to use the word characters but they're real so it doesnt quite fit!) are just genuine people with flaws, who havent quite figured out how to interact with each other yet. I think the security of the written word has meant they have been much more open with each other more quickly than people normally are, and this has created all sorts of problems for them. So when they meet in person, its still a little awkward but the intimacy of those emails creates a whole other level of knowledge and maybe gives both of them (or maybe just Stacy) the feeling they can get away with a lot more, that their actions will be understood, even if they aren't very nice, or wouldn't be ok in 'normal'circumstances.
I love reading these emails. I just wish we could see the other side of the story, the face to face side, and see how Stacy and Dom's interaction in person compares to the raw intimacy of their emails.
Team Chris! Although, to be honest, I think Dom has gone a bit too far here. I think if I was Stacey this would irritate me, although I suppose from Dom's point of view he has nothing left to lose now. But I think he might be risking any miniscule chance by flogging a dead (or at least severely injured) horse. He's handing her his head on a platter. ....I hear ya Dom, I hear ya.
ReplyDeletep.s. And I HATE to add this but..I think in this email, Dom is positioning himself as someone who can give Stacey all these wonderful things... but who's to say that from Stacey's point of view, those characteristics aren't unique to Dom? That, as Hiranga said, she doesn't think Marcus could provide all that (as he actually demonstrated, rather than just wrote about). She might be wrong, but from her point of view, Dom is just talking himself up because he's hurt and so this means she's got all the power. He would be better off taking the upper hand here - same message, different delivery. And then stepping back a bit with some dignity. Ironically, that would probably make him more attractive to her.
ReplyDelete(You know, I'm finding these emails horribly educational. Ouch).
@Stephen- Why is it all going down?
ReplyDeleteActually that doesn't matter, I will be on your team in any situation. :)
Thanks Hiranga - looking forward to that pink fluffy bear - perhaps with salmon ready to eat too?
ReplyDeleteFeathertop - welcome and wonderful comment. I love your wrap up:
ReplyDelete"about the ghost of a man who never lived, or about something that never will happen, or something else that is not."
So tantalising. And your analysis is really fascinating and provactive.
A new welcomed voice to this astonishing discussion of being human.
Where were all of you when I was 15.
Dux, always great to read your thoughts. So honest. Love your blog by the way.
ReplyDeleteEssex, not sure if you'll read this but I was so moved by your comment. I couldn't get to sleep and hope you're okay. Please drop in anytime - if for nothing else than the comments.
ReplyDeleteAnd if it is goodbye, thank you so much for your words and thoughts in the past. I hope you're okay and I am certain we all here wish the best of everything.
Thank you Penny Pup for sharing. I really appreciate it as I appreciate you taking time to comment. I can't quite believe everyone's care. It does make the world seem better, I have to say.
ReplyDeleteIpshi I love Ibsen. I really do. Do you like Strinberg too?
ReplyDeleteAnd a large part of the warmth and safety is due to you and a few other commenters, I believe. Truly.
Hiranga you are a romantic - I know. Come on how lovely is:
ReplyDelete"Who doesn't want someone that moves the hair out of their pretty eyes when they are a a real big mess?"
So wonderful.
Miss Holly, I love your comments when they come. I think you are right when you say the last two lines ultimately summed up his feelings.
ReplyDeleteAnd he needed to use his persona to get there.
And yes, they are so flawed. That's why I love them so.
Welcome Missy M to the comments. You are certainly another great voice in the mix.
ReplyDeleteI am so overwhelemed here. Thank you so much. And I know what you mean - I could be annoyed if I got this email too. I know she's not going to respond well - I think you're right - he does need a different tact to win her over -
(Like Randall, have you read all the emails already?)
Also love your blogs too btw. You take a mean photo. I encourage all that are reading to have a look.
Steph - I feel so much safer now.
ReplyDelete@hiranga - this time I think I truly understand and appreciate what ur trying to say (not that u care either way...hmpphh)
ReplyDeleteIF you're saying that Dom phrased it rather manipulatively, to make it sound like he wanted to hurt S; then yes, it does sound deliberately cute-sy. But I don't believe that. Yes he wants to hurt S, yes he wants to lash out but all that I have known of D, he's such a little boy pretending to be a cool dude.
I think its his pride which hurts the most and so he framed these sentences to show off to S all that she cud have but now won't. (she defi cud have all of it and more with Marcus but D probably won't let himself think of that.)
And yes, as pointed out by u on numerous occassions, i know u dont care whether I agreed with u or not. But I do think ur a cute little mush pot (plz ref to quote ascribed to u by papa bear and also the quote where u said "I would rather make tea the morning after and bring it to you after sex, than try to convince you that i would"... all together now.... AWWWWWWWWWW!!)
@papa bear... Id never even heard of him... i just googled him and i know what im gonna be reading tonight.. u sir are a marvel!
ReplyDelete